Wendy was amazing. I have all of her books. So much respect for her and so much gratitude to you, Anna, for assisting her to bring her books and work into publication.
I agree with her. Luckily in Australia, “VAD” (Voluntary Assisted Dying) is legal. There is a process to go through, and obviously strict legal and medical parameters, but I have seen people in the hospital where I work be able to die with dignity and go out “in style” rather than face the end of life that Wendy describes. I have a friend who chose that path and he was able to plan his dying and be surrounded by his closest family, all of whom understood his decision.
And on the other side, I watched my Mum pretty well starve herself to death after a severe stroke when she had lost all capacity to do anything else (before VAD was legal here). My mothers death was traumatising for everyone, and a journey she took alone, not sharing her thoughts. My friend’s death enabled us all to celebrate his life.
I think we should be allowed to choose. Quality of life is more important to me than length when you are faced with debilitating disease of any sort.
Thanks Sarah, it’s really interesting to hear the two sides and I am sorry for both of those losses from your life. I am curious whether you have noticed the ‘creep’ in Australia that others mention, and fear. Are the VAD laws being extended to include any other groups — from the top of my head I don’t believe Australia includes people living with dementia for example?
That's a really powerful film, thank you for sharing. I've thought a lot about assisted dying since my mum died and my sister got a terminal cancer diagnosis. Wendy's case is compelling and she articulates it so well that I agree with her when she speaks. And yet, I have read other accounts which make me pause. Apart from reports from other countries about 'mission creep' and what can happen when you allow or normalise something new, I was also affected by Andrew O'Hagan's account in Mayflies. I thought the surrounding relationships, and the effect of the decision to go to Dignitas had on these relationships, articulated really well in that book why the death of a human being is of a different order of things to the death of an animal. Esther Rantzen said on the Today programme the other morning that we allow our pets a more dignified death than our human loved ones, but that just made me think that yes, we will put a pet down but we will not put a human being down, and maybe it should stay that way. In any event, we need to talk about the subject with compassion but also with realism. Let's hope we can do that.
Thank you Helen for your thoughts. I understand that it’s a really complex area for many people. As Wendy says in countries where there is legislation people might request the medication to end their lives but they don’t necessarily use it, but just knowing it is there as an option means that they can focus on living. Also, something that those who don’t have direct experience might not realise, that even in countries where there is legislation it is still very hard to gain permission to act on your behalf wishes and actually impossible if you fall outside of the remit — for example your suffering is intolerable but you have not got less than six months to live. I know those who oppose it are very concerned about the creep, but that has not been the case in the most part.
Wendy was and continues to be, such a great advocate for living life to the full so it’s no surprise that she also speaks so clearly and compassionately about living death to the full as it were. Hearing her lived experience is powerful.. I really miss seeing Wendy’s Twitter posts and especially her wonderful photographs. I’m sure she wouldn’t want you to feel that you were t doing enough to continue her work, Anna. Esther Rantzen will get it sorted!!
Thank you for bringing this forward Anna and sharing Wendy’s incredibly reasonable argument for VAD. I completely agree with her that we should be allowed to choose and also notice that here there is a big difference in terms of palliative or medical support depending on whether one is in a hospice or a hospital, as one is designed to keep patients alive and the other to support their death, but even being in the right place for our needs often seems beyond our choice. It is I think of most importance that the subject is discussed widely and legislation changed. I was recently at a death cafe where there were interesting discussions, and as Wendy pointed out, we can only make the choice when we are able too.
I didn't hear a tinge of sadness in her, mostly, concern. The legalization of assisted dying is a new subject for me and regarding where it becomes a subject (since US is diverse and freedom of religion is not involved with politics) should include religion, faith, a spiritual inclusive opinion or interpretation on assisted death procedures. I am very excited to use this subject, if I could, when speaking with elders in my community. I could write you their response, if it appeases you Anna! Thank you for sharing!
Thank for sharing Anna, this is very powerful. It fills me a deep sadness that Wendy, and others like her, are not afforded this fundamental dignity in our country.
We have a society who were so completed outraged by the concept of ID cards and the potential restriction of civil liberty that the government scheme was scrapped, and yet so many passively accept that the liberty to choose to end our life is not our own, but prevented and made criminal by the state.
I applaud you for continuing the conversation and I hope the tide begins to turn.
Thanks for your thoughts, Jo. Yes, it’s strange how people haven’t noticed this loss of liberty, and how — as Wendy often said — we are responsible for our health for our entire lives and then right at the end the state snatches our responsibility, and therefore our liberty, away from us.
Hmmm - will have to check re dementia! I have been working on the cancer ward and my friend had scleroderma.
What do you mean by “creep”?
TBH there doesn’t seem to be a huge take-up and it is not spoken of for example to patients unless they bring the subject up. Then there is a strict protocol and only certain people authorised to have the conversations. In the community, you have to find a GP who will take you on for VAD I think and still lots of assessments prior.
Well in the UK, much of the case against assisted dying laws is because people are worried that they will become wider to include more people - hence the creep. So the fear is that once you allow those with terminal illness and less than six months to live to die with dignity then it’s a slippery slope to allowing those with mental health issues or disabilities to be able to end their lives. That is not something that I have seen in the research — yes in Canada they were considering allowing those living with depression or other mental health conditions to elect to end their lives but that has been postponed.
I had a look online and it seems each state has slightly different laws, and VAD is maybe not legal in the “Territories” (NT and ACT). I think NSW is the only state where it does not apply for dementia. This is one guide to the various rules.
Wendy was amazing. I have all of her books. So much respect for her and so much gratitude to you, Anna, for assisting her to bring her books and work into publication.
I agree with her. Luckily in Australia, “VAD” (Voluntary Assisted Dying) is legal. There is a process to go through, and obviously strict legal and medical parameters, but I have seen people in the hospital where I work be able to die with dignity and go out “in style” rather than face the end of life that Wendy describes. I have a friend who chose that path and he was able to plan his dying and be surrounded by his closest family, all of whom understood his decision.
And on the other side, I watched my Mum pretty well starve herself to death after a severe stroke when she had lost all capacity to do anything else (before VAD was legal here). My mothers death was traumatising for everyone, and a journey she took alone, not sharing her thoughts. My friend’s death enabled us all to celebrate his life.
I think we should be allowed to choose. Quality of life is more important to me than length when you are faced with debilitating disease of any sort.
Thanks Sarah, it’s really interesting to hear the two sides and I am sorry for both of those losses from your life. I am curious whether you have noticed the ‘creep’ in Australia that others mention, and fear. Are the VAD laws being extended to include any other groups — from the top of my head I don’t believe Australia includes people living with dementia for example?
That's a really powerful film, thank you for sharing. I've thought a lot about assisted dying since my mum died and my sister got a terminal cancer diagnosis. Wendy's case is compelling and she articulates it so well that I agree with her when she speaks. And yet, I have read other accounts which make me pause. Apart from reports from other countries about 'mission creep' and what can happen when you allow or normalise something new, I was also affected by Andrew O'Hagan's account in Mayflies. I thought the surrounding relationships, and the effect of the decision to go to Dignitas had on these relationships, articulated really well in that book why the death of a human being is of a different order of things to the death of an animal. Esther Rantzen said on the Today programme the other morning that we allow our pets a more dignified death than our human loved ones, but that just made me think that yes, we will put a pet down but we will not put a human being down, and maybe it should stay that way. In any event, we need to talk about the subject with compassion but also with realism. Let's hope we can do that.
Thank you Helen for your thoughts. I understand that it’s a really complex area for many people. As Wendy says in countries where there is legislation people might request the medication to end their lives but they don’t necessarily use it, but just knowing it is there as an option means that they can focus on living. Also, something that those who don’t have direct experience might not realise, that even in countries where there is legislation it is still very hard to gain permission to act on your behalf wishes and actually impossible if you fall outside of the remit — for example your suffering is intolerable but you have not got less than six months to live. I know those who oppose it are very concerned about the creep, but that has not been the case in the most part.
Wendy was and continues to be, such a great advocate for living life to the full so it’s no surprise that she also speaks so clearly and compassionately about living death to the full as it were. Hearing her lived experience is powerful.. I really miss seeing Wendy’s Twitter posts and especially her wonderful photographs. I’m sure she wouldn’t want you to feel that you were t doing enough to continue her work, Anna. Esther Rantzen will get it sorted!!
Thank you Rebecca. 🙏🏼❤️
Thank you for bringing this forward Anna and sharing Wendy’s incredibly reasonable argument for VAD. I completely agree with her that we should be allowed to choose and also notice that here there is a big difference in terms of palliative or medical support depending on whether one is in a hospice or a hospital, as one is designed to keep patients alive and the other to support their death, but even being in the right place for our needs often seems beyond our choice. It is I think of most importance that the subject is discussed widely and legislation changed. I was recently at a death cafe where there were interesting discussions, and as Wendy pointed out, we can only make the choice when we are able too.
I didn't hear a tinge of sadness in her, mostly, concern. The legalization of assisted dying is a new subject for me and regarding where it becomes a subject (since US is diverse and freedom of religion is not involved with politics) should include religion, faith, a spiritual inclusive opinion or interpretation on assisted death procedures. I am very excited to use this subject, if I could, when speaking with elders in my community. I could write you their response, if it appeases you Anna! Thank you for sharing!
Thank you Brooke, I’m glad you find this subject interesting.
Thank for sharing Anna, this is very powerful. It fills me a deep sadness that Wendy, and others like her, are not afforded this fundamental dignity in our country.
We have a society who were so completed outraged by the concept of ID cards and the potential restriction of civil liberty that the government scheme was scrapped, and yet so many passively accept that the liberty to choose to end our life is not our own, but prevented and made criminal by the state.
I applaud you for continuing the conversation and I hope the tide begins to turn.
Thanks for your thoughts, Jo. Yes, it’s strange how people haven’t noticed this loss of liberty, and how — as Wendy often said — we are responsible for our health for our entire lives and then right at the end the state snatches our responsibility, and therefore our liberty, away from us.
Thank you for sharing that. She really was remarkable. Hugely important conversation.
So inspiring! Thank you so much, Wendy and Anna 💗🙏
Hmmm - will have to check re dementia! I have been working on the cancer ward and my friend had scleroderma.
What do you mean by “creep”?
TBH there doesn’t seem to be a huge take-up and it is not spoken of for example to patients unless they bring the subject up. Then there is a strict protocol and only certain people authorised to have the conversations. In the community, you have to find a GP who will take you on for VAD I think and still lots of assessments prior.
Well in the UK, much of the case against assisted dying laws is because people are worried that they will become wider to include more people - hence the creep. So the fear is that once you allow those with terminal illness and less than six months to live to die with dignity then it’s a slippery slope to allowing those with mental health issues or disabilities to be able to end their lives. That is not something that I have seen in the research — yes in Canada they were considering allowing those living with depression or other mental health conditions to elect to end their lives but that has been postponed.
I think legalising has taken it off the media loudspeaker - not really any discussion heard here now.
Possibly also too many other horrors taking up the news space 😩
Well, yes, quite possibly!
I had a look online and it seems each state has slightly different laws, and VAD is maybe not legal in the “Territories” (NT and ACT). I think NSW is the only state where it does not apply for dementia. This is one guide to the various rules.
https://cms.qut.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/1303336/ELLA-VAD-Factsheet-Dec-2023.pdf