I find it heartbreaking this schism - it does not have to be like this - it doe snot have to be all or nothing - either or - we can have "and" so all needs are met as much as possible in a messy world with even messier humans
I haven't read this poem before, it's stunning, and like all the best poems do, feels like it was written just for me in this very moment. Thank you so much for sharing it today.
it is so true - and it felt so right for this article too. So often women are deemed selfish, unfair difficult etc when being themselves in the world - whatever the circumstances.
What a powerful post. So much of what your guest author wrote about the despair when facing workplace bullying resonated - I was instantly back in some of the most difficult years of my career. Though the badge to hang my bosses' dislike of me on was not the same, I know that both experiences were centred on misogyny.
When there is a conflict as difficult as the one articulated here, the one thing that does seem clear is that there will always be nuance, and the only way to navigate that is to listen. Really listen. With curiosity, and yes, with kindness - on all sides of the debate, and I'm sad that the author in this piece was denied both and instead silenced (quite literally, with an NDA). I think the problem at the core of most societal conflict is not women, nor trans people, but patriarchy itself. And the only way to dismantle that? To shine a light. To talk about it. To listen, and to be heard.
Thank you, Anna, for sharing this important piece.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Louise. I always believe that things are never made worse by talking about them, and so I will endeavour to make White Ink a place for these stories.
well said - it is as I said below utterly heartbreaking and does not have to be like this. Yes it is the institutional deeply embedded patriarchy and internalised narratives and norms that have shaped us all. As someone with experience of work place bullying and a stalker - I know the damage such persecution and unfairness is huge.
What happened to anonymous here has happened to thousands of women, and even men, who tried to stand up for women and who acted with integrity. It is far from a blameless situation for those who chose to destroy the careers of, damage the reputations and mental health of those they targeted. In addition they they destroyed the raison d'etre of the very organizations they managed, which were mandated to protect and nurture women to get back on their feet. Despite their ability to envision the outcome, they opportunistically or cowardly sided with men who colonize women's identity. Men, who could also see the cruel and selfish consequences of their manipulations and actions to pressure, undermine and slander a person with integrity. This is not a victimless crime. The suffering caused by these men impersonating women is enormous on both personal and organizational levels. Having worked in the area of resistance to male violence I see that a lot of the damage done by trans is irreparable. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube anymore than you can restore the secret location of a shelter once it's made public. You can't bring back the women who were driven away because of being accused of weakness or transphobia because of being afraid of males after being victims of male violence. You can't restore the trust of women and children who have been lied to and gaslit in the service of pandering to trans fetishists. One woman, catering to the power of trans said to a woman who refused to go along, "What a shame that you're destroying your legacy!" But who is destroying their legacy? The anonymous woman here or the women who capitulated, made excuses for, and acted on behalf of the transgenderists?
We are certainly entering uncharted waters. I feel like there are so many potholes full of quicksand in this new world of technology.
Whilst trying my hardest to empathise with trans women, I suppose I have to label myself “sexist” for not considering these people as having the same gender experience as me, and therefore different deep emotional responses to my gender experience.
We cannot deny that there is a difference without denying the lived experience of those of us born female and who have struggled in and for our lives as daughters, workers, partners, mothers, grandmothers.
I wonder if the same dilemma applies to trans men, where do they fit in this equation?
In my opinion we need a third gender category for safe spaces. This could work to the advantage of all, in both directions.
Whichever direction this goes, it is an unavoidably sexist conversation.
I agree there needs to be laws around this, but I would not like the job of creating them!
Yes exactly, Sarah! It’s a poisoned chalice! But I agree the way forward is a third space and I think if we’d come to that way of thinking earlier than we could have taken a lot of heat out of the conversation. I do worry, however, that disabled people have been waiting very patiently in line for their third spaces too, and so we need to create a more equal and inclusive society for everyone.
True! I think we are “moving towards” (cliché, sorry) more disability-friendliness here in Oz, but it is still far from ideal.
And it’s so terrifying that fear and backward-looking people who are unable to move with the times, are moving populations away from embracing diversity.
Such a poignant post, and I hope that writing it didn't trigger the feelings the writer had during her suspension.
I have no direct experience of any of the issues raised (other than being a woman) and believe that it must be unbearably painful for those who feel they are in the wrong body/gender to start on their transition; I'm also concerned by the amount of coverage that this now gets, and worry that it encourages young people to take an irrevocable step at an age when there is so much going on with hormones and finding an identity. There have been cases of transitioned people who realise that they have made a mistake.
I saw a magazine a few years ago, for women and trans people - a clear case of the 'othering' of women - 50% of the population. I think trans men were included in the demographic, but surely they were men by then? The experience of a trans woman will not be the same as one who was born a woman. Jan Morris would not have been taken on the Everest expedition if she had transitioned by then.
There have been recent cases of trans women committing rape in a women's prison. Sportswomen object to the unfair advantage that trans women have from their biology. The Supreme Court decision supports biological women in their own safe spaces.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Nicola, yes I think it’s possible that we can work towards a place of holding both positions in mind without forsaking one or the other. I think that’s what the clarification of the court did but I know some disagree.
When my woke daughter was pregnant with a son, she said to woke me, "I wonder who they will be and what they will become." At that moment, we had a short conversation. "My love, I said," when he's born, I'm not going to tell people you had a "they" when they ask me whether you had a girl or boy. I am not going to call him my grandthey...he's going to be my grandson." We laughed, each of us knowing and loving transpeople in our lives whom we respectfully refer to as they. Having brought up girls, having a boy baby, boy toddler and now a four year old grandson, I've discovered that he definitely is growing up profoundly male but in a surprisingly different way. He has hair down the middle of his back that he loves and doesn't want to have cut. He dresses as a boy but loves sometimes to wear skirts and dresses. People think, because he is quite beautiful and with that long hair, he is a girl. Often, they comment, "what a pretty girl." I say, "he sure is, he's a boy." One day, in the market, he said, "It's ok they think I'm a girl." His masculinity is clear. He LOVES trucks, loves books, loves and expresses love to his family, is sweethearted, fierce about his desires, kind to animals, and loves to veggie garden with me, loves hiking, wants to be a firefighter, is very boylike...What stands out to me is he knows himself. He doesn't care what people call him. girl/boy...He's a lucky on - growing up on an island in the Pacific Northwest, in the forest, in nature, with two loving parents, a gaggle of aunts and grandmothers, a strong grandfather figure, a wonderful pre-school with great values. We're none of us religious. He has open minded people, multicultural people all around him, understands some people have changed genders... he is living a life unemcumbered by attitudes my generation grew up with where a woman was a woman (and we needed to struggle to get equality and fairness and fight against male dominance, support girls empowerment) and men were men (unfairly and toxically ((in general culture) in charge of most everything and knew it)... he's growing up in a culture that has relaxed its idea of masculinity and feminity, what it means to be male or female. Rarely, do we discuss in this conversation about gender that there are people who are middlesexed, who are two-spirited, two-bodied... it's all so polarized and dualized.All this to say that for myself, I don't believe it is fair to have male-bodied athletes play on women's teams. I have had in the back of my mind the idea that men just have to have it all, even have being a woman, which may be short-sighted of me. I have to say that I don't want my grandson to decide to change his gender, especially by surgery. I have to say I cringe when I hear that a man or woman has removed her or his genitals. I have to say that I believe the mind and thinking and believing -- all coming from the mind -- leads us to believe everything we think about ourselves. I have to say, I am deeply devoted to being she/her -- and the only way I can think to say I'm also they is because there are so many people inside me and some of them are masculine, very masculine (as in the way we have come to understand masculinity -- not toxic masculinity -- but the masculine of the great male poets, artists, dancers... anyway, I just wanted to weigh in on this topic. I'm sorry the author was so polarized in her organization and her job was put on the chopping block. I don't know how all this will play out...but then again, we, humans, face so many huge unknowns -- the list is so long -- on a planet desperate for us to wake up!
Oh Linda, I love all that you have written here — thank you for sharing. Also the ‘grandthey’ comment did make me laugh! But I love that your grandson can embrace all these sides of himself, I resist the words feminine and masculine because … what do they even mean? They are entrenched in gender stereotypes that I would like to think we could move away from, my feeling has always been don’t change yourself, change society. And in some ways I think that yes, transwomen should use male toilets and trans men should use female toilets because there are so many ways of being a biological male and a biological female and we should be proud of that. If the problem is male violence, then society should — and must — address that problem, but that’s not something that women need to find a solution to, that’s something for the men to fathom. All men, even the ones who dress as women. I might be wrong, I don’t know 🤷🏼♀️
Hi Anna, as a cis feminist psychotherapist woman who teaches trainee therapists about working with women in therapy, and as a trans ally too, I sincerely want to understand Anonymous’s experience so that I can empathise and support.
I’m finding the first few paragraphs jarring, however. I’m wondering if you or your guest writer could clarify if she is aware she is conflating ‘male bodied persons’ with ‘man/men’? If not, does becoming aware change anything? If yes, is the conflation deliberate? If deliberate, what purpose does it serve?
I didn’t switch off. That would’ve been active, which implies agency. I was shut down - self-protective nervous system activation - because I just don’t have the stomach for any kind of violence at all.
A trans woman may be male no matter how much we are forbidden from saying so (she also may not strictly be male - that nuance does matter) but she is not a man. She has a duty to acknowledge that male biology can be terrifying for women but she also has the right to be acknowledged as a trans woman. This isn’t subjective. It’s science (even if many trans people object to being reduced to invoking science just to be treated with human dignity).
Incidentally, I did continue reading beyond the first three paragraphs. I just couldn’t fully take it in because I was triggered by the linguistic denial of one group’s humanity to prioritise another’s.
That’s not to say I can’t or won’t return to the article. I am taking your invitation to have a difficult conversation at face value. But next time I’ll know that I’m going to have to do a lot of grounding work to be able to cope with the cruelty inherent to the language used.
Alison, I’m sincerely sorry you find the language cruel, that was not my intention when publishing and I doubt it was the intention of Anonymous either. Anonymous also says more than once in the piece that trans people need and deserve protections, but that clearly was lost because you shut down. If I hadn’t picked up on it as cruel, then I’m sure that she didn’t either, because no-one is intending to be cruel to anyone here and we perhaps need to accept that if we hope to move on. Maybe I’m wrong, I might be. I don’t know and I think that’s perhaps the point, I don’t know, other people seem so sure and able to tell people they are wrong, they use the wrong language, they are thinking in the wrong way, and most humans want to try to understand, want to be kind, even if they’re not expressing that in an imperfect way.
Hi Anna, I appreciate you and Anonymous for the post. It’s quite hard to try hold the conversation this way eg the app isn’t letting me see your last reply while responding. I acknowledge that I can’t yet comment more generally. I’m confident I will be moved by aspects once I am able to stay with it. I don’t feel I’m owed any kind of apology. I was basically just curious about the language used. Thank you for your responses!
Hi Alison, thanks for your comment. I guess Anonymous is referring to their biological status as men rather than their gender identity that is woman. And for example a woman who has been a victim of male violence does not necessarily see a ‘woman’ who is sharing accommodation with them, but a male bodied person. There have been incidents of men who have identified as women to gain access to refuges to harm women, so we need to acknowledge there are those who will self-describe as trans to do that, and protect women accordingly. Does that help? Or clarify? I can’t speak for Anonymous but that is what I guess and I do think that it would aid the trans community to acknowledge that there are those who are seeking the protections it presents to them to cause harm and reject those people, because they are ultimately harming that community as well as women.
I think trans women need to understand that in the context of a refuge for women fleeing heterosexual IPV, the (perceived) presence of male biology is potentially re-traumatising regardless of how lovely/caring/victimised a trans woman is, and regardless of the threat of fraudulent infiltration. That’s got to be extremely painful for a trans woman to grapple with but exacerbating a cis-woman’s trauma shouldn’t be considered less painful or harmful. At the same time there needs to be a solution for trans women seeking refuge too. Is there one?
Also, I say “perceived presence” because the full and actual biological constitution of a trans person in a women’s shelter isn’t necessarily known to anyone else there. Trauma is trauma and triggers are triggers so this point doesn’t change that cis women fleeing heterosexual IPV need to feel free from any threat, even if only perceived, from biologically male aggression.
I do feel that saying a trans woman’s biological status is ‘man’ when one could just say ‘male’ (and acknowledging biological status can only ever be assumed since we don’t know a given individual’s composition) is passive aggressive. That’s what makes me shut down viscerally.
Can’t we fight for women’s rights without being psychologically violent ourselves in its pursuit?
Thanks Alison, I think one of the issues is the subjectivity of it all, for example you believe that it is psychologically violent to use the word man instead of male, other people reading might not have felt that, others might. It’s a shame that made you switch off from Anonymous’s story as she has suffered also and maybe we need to look past these things if we are ever to make progress. For example I don’t use the term cis but when other people do, including trans friends, I can still hear and empathise with their story. We have got to be open to hearing these experiences because this connection is what makes us human, right? And it’s not always going to come in the same language we would use but it’s all equally valid.
Our society perpetuates male violence against women. Most men and women yearn for a society free of such violence. A trans inclusive society could be such a society… Setting cis women against trans women allows patriarchal violence to continue. We need to consider who gains most from women arguing with each other xx
Hi Hannah, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, and I think that this is something we can all agree on, that we long for a society free of male violence. I'm not sure I agree with your definition of women discussing how trans rights and women's rights are in conflict as Anonymous discusses in her piece and how we work around that for the best of both parties as 'arguing' though, we cannot expect a demographic of 51% of the world's biological population to agree, and then if we add a small proportion of the other 49% of the biological population into that, there are competing needs. In theory of course it would be wonderful if we could all just get along and women didn't need to live in fear of male violence, but in practice society needs to be organised in a certain way so women are protected from that male violence. The fact that women don't have protection from misogyny in law, (it is not a hate crime), just shows how little this violence towards women is not taken seriously -- even violence from trans activists who call for the death of women who don't agree with how they believe society should be organised. It's a difficult subject, but all of these discussions advance understanding and increase hope for the future, and that's why I like to bring them here to White Ink because as I've said before talking about things never makes them worse. Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment xx
Working together to create a world in which misogyny doesn’t exist seems a constructive way forward I think. For me, that involves more expansive attitudes than simply naming it a hate crime and narrowing definitions of womanhood xx
What about widening definitions of manhood? My friend has a son who is very 'feminine' (though I hate to use these terms), he has always worn dresses, or painted his nails, or played with dolls. My friend teaches his son that you can still be a strong man and be a 'feminine' man, I love this because there are many ways to be men and women that do not have to fit into narrowing definitions of feminine and masculine. On Woman's Hour yesterday, one of the representatives of For Women Scotland was saying that when gay men feared men's loos there wasn't a call to allow them into women's loos. I would like to see a day when trans women can use men's loos because men know that being a biological male comes in all different shapes and sizes, in the same way that we know being female does. Would you disagree with this? I'm really interested to know xx
Incredible story. I wonder if the CEO’s response was caused by someone in the trans community or someone within your organisation who was scared, misguided and thought they were doing the right thing. Horrible how you suffered, but so heart-warming that you are happy again now.
It's my habit to separate strands when seeking to understand something - especially when, apart from knowing, to the best of my awareness, precisely two trans-women, zero trans-men, being simply a man who questioned his own gender aged eight at boarding school and a father of five daughters.
I've also worked in support of women-only support organisations, cringe at some of the mysoginistic "banter" and excuse-making that I witness as a man, from men and women, and am acutely aware that I have little credibility of "lived experience" in this debate. (Although I am making efforts to widen my understanding.)
Except for this strand:
The part of the story that describes opaque, unfair, bullying and cowardly self-interest from those who are in positions of leadership in an organisation - any organisation. It's always particularly repulsive when there is some sort of corporate "caring" involved - police, teaching, social services, NHS spring to mind. In this I do have significant direct experience. And in this, "Anonymous" has my unconditional support.
Is the Supreme Court decision a victory for anyone? Probably not, unless we want there. to be losers, the defeated, the vanquished.
My hope would be that the debate, including this post here, becomes part of a wider movement towards treating humans humanly and with respect.
I think we can all agree that is the hope, Matthew. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions and experience and they are as equally valid and welcome as all others.
The Journey
One day you finally knew
what you had to do, and began,
though the voices around you
kept shouting
their bad advice—
though the whole house
began to tremble
and you felt the old tug
at your ankles.
"Mend my life!"
each voice cried.
But you didn't stop.
You knew what you had to do,
though the wind pried
with its stiff fingers
at the very foundations,
though their melancholy
was terrible.
It was already late
enough, and a wild night,
and the road full of fallen
branches and stones.
But little by little,
as you left their voices behind,
the stars began to burn
through the sheets of clouds,
and there was a new voice
which you slowly
recognized as your own,
that kept you company
as you strode deeper and deeper
into the world,
determined to do
the only thing you could do—
determined to save
the only life you could save.
Beautiful poem ❤️🙏🏼
I hope the author reads it too
I find it heartbreaking this schism - it does not have to be like this - it doe snot have to be all or nothing - either or - we can have "and" so all needs are met as much as possible in a messy world with even messier humans
I haven't read this poem before, it's stunning, and like all the best poems do, feels like it was written just for me in this very moment. Thank you so much for sharing it today.
it is so true - and it felt so right for this article too. So often women are deemed selfish, unfair difficult etc when being themselves in the world - whatever the circumstances.
What a powerful post. So much of what your guest author wrote about the despair when facing workplace bullying resonated - I was instantly back in some of the most difficult years of my career. Though the badge to hang my bosses' dislike of me on was not the same, I know that both experiences were centred on misogyny.
When there is a conflict as difficult as the one articulated here, the one thing that does seem clear is that there will always be nuance, and the only way to navigate that is to listen. Really listen. With curiosity, and yes, with kindness - on all sides of the debate, and I'm sad that the author in this piece was denied both and instead silenced (quite literally, with an NDA). I think the problem at the core of most societal conflict is not women, nor trans people, but patriarchy itself. And the only way to dismantle that? To shine a light. To talk about it. To listen, and to be heard.
Thank you, Anna, for sharing this important piece.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Louise. I always believe that things are never made worse by talking about them, and so I will endeavour to make White Ink a place for these stories.
well said - it is as I said below utterly heartbreaking and does not have to be like this. Yes it is the institutional deeply embedded patriarchy and internalised narratives and norms that have shaped us all. As someone with experience of work place bullying and a stalker - I know the damage such persecution and unfairness is huge.
Sorry to hear this, Lucy.
What happened to anonymous here has happened to thousands of women, and even men, who tried to stand up for women and who acted with integrity. It is far from a blameless situation for those who chose to destroy the careers of, damage the reputations and mental health of those they targeted. In addition they they destroyed the raison d'etre of the very organizations they managed, which were mandated to protect and nurture women to get back on their feet. Despite their ability to envision the outcome, they opportunistically or cowardly sided with men who colonize women's identity. Men, who could also see the cruel and selfish consequences of their manipulations and actions to pressure, undermine and slander a person with integrity. This is not a victimless crime. The suffering caused by these men impersonating women is enormous on both personal and organizational levels. Having worked in the area of resistance to male violence I see that a lot of the damage done by trans is irreparable. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube anymore than you can restore the secret location of a shelter once it's made public. You can't bring back the women who were driven away because of being accused of weakness or transphobia because of being afraid of males after being victims of male violence. You can't restore the trust of women and children who have been lied to and gaslit in the service of pandering to trans fetishists. One woman, catering to the power of trans said to a woman who refused to go along, "What a shame that you're destroying your legacy!" But who is destroying their legacy? The anonymous woman here or the women who capitulated, made excuses for, and acted on behalf of the transgenderists?
We are certainly entering uncharted waters. I feel like there are so many potholes full of quicksand in this new world of technology.
Whilst trying my hardest to empathise with trans women, I suppose I have to label myself “sexist” for not considering these people as having the same gender experience as me, and therefore different deep emotional responses to my gender experience.
We cannot deny that there is a difference without denying the lived experience of those of us born female and who have struggled in and for our lives as daughters, workers, partners, mothers, grandmothers.
I wonder if the same dilemma applies to trans men, where do they fit in this equation?
In my opinion we need a third gender category for safe spaces. This could work to the advantage of all, in both directions.
Whichever direction this goes, it is an unavoidably sexist conversation.
I agree there needs to be laws around this, but I would not like the job of creating them!
Yes exactly, Sarah! It’s a poisoned chalice! But I agree the way forward is a third space and I think if we’d come to that way of thinking earlier than we could have taken a lot of heat out of the conversation. I do worry, however, that disabled people have been waiting very patiently in line for their third spaces too, and so we need to create a more equal and inclusive society for everyone.
True! I think we are “moving towards” (cliché, sorry) more disability-friendliness here in Oz, but it is still far from ideal.
And it’s so terrifying that fear and backward-looking people who are unable to move with the times, are moving populations away from embracing diversity.
If that makes sense…
Such a poignant post, and I hope that writing it didn't trigger the feelings the writer had during her suspension.
I have no direct experience of any of the issues raised (other than being a woman) and believe that it must be unbearably painful for those who feel they are in the wrong body/gender to start on their transition; I'm also concerned by the amount of coverage that this now gets, and worry that it encourages young people to take an irrevocable step at an age when there is so much going on with hormones and finding an identity. There have been cases of transitioned people who realise that they have made a mistake.
I saw a magazine a few years ago, for women and trans people - a clear case of the 'othering' of women - 50% of the population. I think trans men were included in the demographic, but surely they were men by then? The experience of a trans woman will not be the same as one who was born a woman. Jan Morris would not have been taken on the Everest expedition if she had transitioned by then.
There have been recent cases of trans women committing rape in a women's prison. Sportswomen object to the unfair advantage that trans women have from their biology. The Supreme Court decision supports biological women in their own safe spaces.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Nicola, yes I think it’s possible that we can work towards a place of holding both positions in mind without forsaking one or the other. I think that’s what the clarification of the court did but I know some disagree.
When my woke daughter was pregnant with a son, she said to woke me, "I wonder who they will be and what they will become." At that moment, we had a short conversation. "My love, I said," when he's born, I'm not going to tell people you had a "they" when they ask me whether you had a girl or boy. I am not going to call him my grandthey...he's going to be my grandson." We laughed, each of us knowing and loving transpeople in our lives whom we respectfully refer to as they. Having brought up girls, having a boy baby, boy toddler and now a four year old grandson, I've discovered that he definitely is growing up profoundly male but in a surprisingly different way. He has hair down the middle of his back that he loves and doesn't want to have cut. He dresses as a boy but loves sometimes to wear skirts and dresses. People think, because he is quite beautiful and with that long hair, he is a girl. Often, they comment, "what a pretty girl." I say, "he sure is, he's a boy." One day, in the market, he said, "It's ok they think I'm a girl." His masculinity is clear. He LOVES trucks, loves books, loves and expresses love to his family, is sweethearted, fierce about his desires, kind to animals, and loves to veggie garden with me, loves hiking, wants to be a firefighter, is very boylike...What stands out to me is he knows himself. He doesn't care what people call him. girl/boy...He's a lucky on - growing up on an island in the Pacific Northwest, in the forest, in nature, with two loving parents, a gaggle of aunts and grandmothers, a strong grandfather figure, a wonderful pre-school with great values. We're none of us religious. He has open minded people, multicultural people all around him, understands some people have changed genders... he is living a life unemcumbered by attitudes my generation grew up with where a woman was a woman (and we needed to struggle to get equality and fairness and fight against male dominance, support girls empowerment) and men were men (unfairly and toxically ((in general culture) in charge of most everything and knew it)... he's growing up in a culture that has relaxed its idea of masculinity and feminity, what it means to be male or female. Rarely, do we discuss in this conversation about gender that there are people who are middlesexed, who are two-spirited, two-bodied... it's all so polarized and dualized.All this to say that for myself, I don't believe it is fair to have male-bodied athletes play on women's teams. I have had in the back of my mind the idea that men just have to have it all, even have being a woman, which may be short-sighted of me. I have to say that I don't want my grandson to decide to change his gender, especially by surgery. I have to say I cringe when I hear that a man or woman has removed her or his genitals. I have to say that I believe the mind and thinking and believing -- all coming from the mind -- leads us to believe everything we think about ourselves. I have to say, I am deeply devoted to being she/her -- and the only way I can think to say I'm also they is because there are so many people inside me and some of them are masculine, very masculine (as in the way we have come to understand masculinity -- not toxic masculinity -- but the masculine of the great male poets, artists, dancers... anyway, I just wanted to weigh in on this topic. I'm sorry the author was so polarized in her organization and her job was put on the chopping block. I don't know how all this will play out...but then again, we, humans, face so many huge unknowns -- the list is so long -- on a planet desperate for us to wake up!
Oh Linda, I love all that you have written here — thank you for sharing. Also the ‘grandthey’ comment did make me laugh! But I love that your grandson can embrace all these sides of himself, I resist the words feminine and masculine because … what do they even mean? They are entrenched in gender stereotypes that I would like to think we could move away from, my feeling has always been don’t change yourself, change society. And in some ways I think that yes, transwomen should use male toilets and trans men should use female toilets because there are so many ways of being a biological male and a biological female and we should be proud of that. If the problem is male violence, then society should — and must — address that problem, but that’s not something that women need to find a solution to, that’s something for the men to fathom. All men, even the ones who dress as women. I might be wrong, I don’t know 🤷🏼♀️
thank you Anna… I’m writing a Substack on being human. I'd love you to come visit and sip a tea with me. https://beingahuman.substack.com/
by Mary Oliver -
Hi Anna, as a cis feminist psychotherapist woman who teaches trainee therapists about working with women in therapy, and as a trans ally too, I sincerely want to understand Anonymous’s experience so that I can empathise and support.
I’m finding the first few paragraphs jarring, however. I’m wondering if you or your guest writer could clarify if she is aware she is conflating ‘male bodied persons’ with ‘man/men’? If not, does becoming aware change anything? If yes, is the conflation deliberate? If deliberate, what purpose does it serve?
Thank you!
Alison
I didn’t switch off. That would’ve been active, which implies agency. I was shut down - self-protective nervous system activation - because I just don’t have the stomach for any kind of violence at all.
A trans woman may be male no matter how much we are forbidden from saying so (she also may not strictly be male - that nuance does matter) but she is not a man. She has a duty to acknowledge that male biology can be terrifying for women but she also has the right to be acknowledged as a trans woman. This isn’t subjective. It’s science (even if many trans people object to being reduced to invoking science just to be treated with human dignity).
Incidentally, I did continue reading beyond the first three paragraphs. I just couldn’t fully take it in because I was triggered by the linguistic denial of one group’s humanity to prioritise another’s.
That’s not to say I can’t or won’t return to the article. I am taking your invitation to have a difficult conversation at face value. But next time I’ll know that I’m going to have to do a lot of grounding work to be able to cope with the cruelty inherent to the language used.
Alison, I’m sincerely sorry you find the language cruel, that was not my intention when publishing and I doubt it was the intention of Anonymous either. Anonymous also says more than once in the piece that trans people need and deserve protections, but that clearly was lost because you shut down. If I hadn’t picked up on it as cruel, then I’m sure that she didn’t either, because no-one is intending to be cruel to anyone here and we perhaps need to accept that if we hope to move on. Maybe I’m wrong, I might be. I don’t know and I think that’s perhaps the point, I don’t know, other people seem so sure and able to tell people they are wrong, they use the wrong language, they are thinking in the wrong way, and most humans want to try to understand, want to be kind, even if they’re not expressing that in an imperfect way.
Hi Anna, I appreciate you and Anonymous for the post. It’s quite hard to try hold the conversation this way eg the app isn’t letting me see your last reply while responding. I acknowledge that I can’t yet comment more generally. I’m confident I will be moved by aspects once I am able to stay with it. I don’t feel I’m owed any kind of apology. I was basically just curious about the language used. Thank you for your responses!
Hi Alison, thanks for your comment. I guess Anonymous is referring to their biological status as men rather than their gender identity that is woman. And for example a woman who has been a victim of male violence does not necessarily see a ‘woman’ who is sharing accommodation with them, but a male bodied person. There have been incidents of men who have identified as women to gain access to refuges to harm women, so we need to acknowledge there are those who will self-describe as trans to do that, and protect women accordingly. Does that help? Or clarify? I can’t speak for Anonymous but that is what I guess and I do think that it would aid the trans community to acknowledge that there are those who are seeking the protections it presents to them to cause harm and reject those people, because they are ultimately harming that community as well as women.
Thank Anna.
I think trans women need to understand that in the context of a refuge for women fleeing heterosexual IPV, the (perceived) presence of male biology is potentially re-traumatising regardless of how lovely/caring/victimised a trans woman is, and regardless of the threat of fraudulent infiltration. That’s got to be extremely painful for a trans woman to grapple with but exacerbating a cis-woman’s trauma shouldn’t be considered less painful or harmful. At the same time there needs to be a solution for trans women seeking refuge too. Is there one?
Also, I say “perceived presence” because the full and actual biological constitution of a trans person in a women’s shelter isn’t necessarily known to anyone else there. Trauma is trauma and triggers are triggers so this point doesn’t change that cis women fleeing heterosexual IPV need to feel free from any threat, even if only perceived, from biologically male aggression.
I do feel that saying a trans woman’s biological status is ‘man’ when one could just say ‘male’ (and acknowledging biological status can only ever be assumed since we don’t know a given individual’s composition) is passive aggressive. That’s what makes me shut down viscerally.
Can’t we fight for women’s rights without being psychologically violent ourselves in its pursuit?
Thanks Alison, I think one of the issues is the subjectivity of it all, for example you believe that it is psychologically violent to use the word man instead of male, other people reading might not have felt that, others might. It’s a shame that made you switch off from Anonymous’s story as she has suffered also and maybe we need to look past these things if we are ever to make progress. For example I don’t use the term cis but when other people do, including trans friends, I can still hear and empathise with their story. We have got to be open to hearing these experiences because this connection is what makes us human, right? And it’s not always going to come in the same language we would use but it’s all equally valid.
Our society perpetuates male violence against women. Most men and women yearn for a society free of such violence. A trans inclusive society could be such a society… Setting cis women against trans women allows patriarchal violence to continue. We need to consider who gains most from women arguing with each other xx
Hi Hannah, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, and I think that this is something we can all agree on, that we long for a society free of male violence. I'm not sure I agree with your definition of women discussing how trans rights and women's rights are in conflict as Anonymous discusses in her piece and how we work around that for the best of both parties as 'arguing' though, we cannot expect a demographic of 51% of the world's biological population to agree, and then if we add a small proportion of the other 49% of the biological population into that, there are competing needs. In theory of course it would be wonderful if we could all just get along and women didn't need to live in fear of male violence, but in practice society needs to be organised in a certain way so women are protected from that male violence. The fact that women don't have protection from misogyny in law, (it is not a hate crime), just shows how little this violence towards women is not taken seriously -- even violence from trans activists who call for the death of women who don't agree with how they believe society should be organised. It's a difficult subject, but all of these discussions advance understanding and increase hope for the future, and that's why I like to bring them here to White Ink because as I've said before talking about things never makes them worse. Thank you so much for your thoughtful comment xx
Working together to create a world in which misogyny doesn’t exist seems a constructive way forward I think. For me, that involves more expansive attitudes than simply naming it a hate crime and narrowing definitions of womanhood xx
What about widening definitions of manhood? My friend has a son who is very 'feminine' (though I hate to use these terms), he has always worn dresses, or painted his nails, or played with dolls. My friend teaches his son that you can still be a strong man and be a 'feminine' man, I love this because there are many ways to be men and women that do not have to fit into narrowing definitions of feminine and masculine. On Woman's Hour yesterday, one of the representatives of For Women Scotland was saying that when gay men feared men's loos there wasn't a call to allow them into women's loos. I would like to see a day when trans women can use men's loos because men know that being a biological male comes in all different shapes and sizes, in the same way that we know being female does. Would you disagree with this? I'm really interested to know xx
Incredible story. I wonder if the CEO’s response was caused by someone in the trans community or someone within your organisation who was scared, misguided and thought they were doing the right thing. Horrible how you suffered, but so heart-warming that you are happy again now.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Joanna.
It's my habit to separate strands when seeking to understand something - especially when, apart from knowing, to the best of my awareness, precisely two trans-women, zero trans-men, being simply a man who questioned his own gender aged eight at boarding school and a father of five daughters.
I've also worked in support of women-only support organisations, cringe at some of the mysoginistic "banter" and excuse-making that I witness as a man, from men and women, and am acutely aware that I have little credibility of "lived experience" in this debate. (Although I am making efforts to widen my understanding.)
Except for this strand:
The part of the story that describes opaque, unfair, bullying and cowardly self-interest from those who are in positions of leadership in an organisation - any organisation. It's always particularly repulsive when there is some sort of corporate "caring" involved - police, teaching, social services, NHS spring to mind. In this I do have significant direct experience. And in this, "Anonymous" has my unconditional support.
Is the Supreme Court decision a victory for anyone? Probably not, unless we want there. to be losers, the defeated, the vanquished.
My hope would be that the debate, including this post here, becomes part of a wider movement towards treating humans humanly and with respect.
But then I'm just a bloke.
I think we can all agree that is the hope, Matthew. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and opinions and experience and they are as equally valid and welcome as all others.